Scam Watch
In the corresponding episode of our Money Tips No One Told You Podcast, we spoke with Melissa Sonnier, Risk Management Officer at First Pioneers about scams. Scams are on the rise and there seems to always be a new one. Below is the conversation we had about scams.
This is an unfortunate thing to talk about, but we're hearing so much about scams and they just seem to be growing. It just seems to be more and more all the time.
Yeah. And definitely with technology, the scammers are definitely getting smarter in how they are sucking people's money out of their life savings, millions at a time.
Oh, my gosh. And it's just so sad. Some of the people that I've seen get taken by a scam truly do lose a lot of money, or money that was, I guess, very important. It was for something else. I guess money is important for everybody, but I've seen people lose life savings. I've seen them lose their tuition, their car payment, their--
Mortgage payment.
Yeah. It just seems to be everything. So it's a very scary thing. And I've seen very savvy people get taken by scams. So tell us a little bit about some of the ones that are going on right now.
So one of the more popular ones that is really common right now is just the run-of-the-mill Nigerian prince scam. And everyone remembers getting those letters or maybe an email or something, and you send them $300 and you get $3 million or something like that. Well, now it's still very similar that people will go on dating apps, on social media, and they find these people that are just, unfortunately very lonely sometimes and they latch onto them. But what's crazy is sometimes they will talk to these people for-- it could be a few days, weeks, months, or a year before they even actually ask for money. They're building the trust of these victims so that they will trust them enough to give them money if they ask for it. And so how really it starts with the scammer will say, "Oh, yes, this is what I look like. And I'm working in such and such country for work, and I need money for whatever." And they usually get it. I mean, it takes a lot of work on their part because sometimes they have to call up to 200 people a day. And sometimes you might get one or two that actually click and send them money.
Oh, my gosh. And so people are using it as a romance scam. I guess because people are lonely.
Yes. One of the stories that I saw on the show that I watched about these scams, it was a guy and a girl that were out of they're from Jamaica. The guy was talking to the victim, he was the one that does typing on the computer or texting. But whenever the victim wanted to call, who he thought was his fiance, it was the girl that would talk. So he's thinking that he's in love with this woman on the phone, and he's actually in love with a man who is in turn actually really in love with him. But he can't tell him at this point. And this victim has sent him upwards of $20,000.
So how are they reaching out to the victims? Is it emails? Is it phone calls?
A lot of times, it's call centers. So in call centers, they'll have call centers that are-- like Jamaica, they speak English, and so they have call centers for American and European companies. They're legit call centers for companies. But what they do is they get those names and addresses, what they call lead lists. So they have all your information. So it's like political surveys, debt collectors. So they get these lists, and they sell them on the black market underground. And so you buy these lists. You also buy these, what they call scripts, like a little script of how you scan these people. And I will say the ones from the poorer countries, like Africa, or there's another one in, like I said, Jamaica, these people are doing it for survival. Not the ones at the top, but this is how they are just trying to feed their kids and whatnot. And for the most part, they don't really feel bad about it.
So they consider it an actual business. Wow. Do you think it's more the older population that's being targeted more?
Yes, definitely older and definitely American because they said that Americans tend to be lonely, I guess, and also Americans like free stuff. So that kind of brings me back to the whole lottery thing. One of the stories, it was this guy who his big sell is, he calls these people from these lead lists, and he says, "Hey, you just won a 2022 Mercedes Benz." And he goes as far as to mail them an actual key, a car key in the mail. But I mean, it's a fake car key. He says, "Once you get this key, you can use that envelope or whatever to mail the processing fee, which would be between 2 and 4 hundred dollars." And that's it. They're never going to get a car. But they're like, "Americans like free stuff." They think even though they didn't enter anything, that this is legit.
So it's probably an easy way to prey on them because maybe, "Oh, well, I may have signed up and just forgot about it or something." Okay. So that's one kind. It seems like there's so many kinds. I had one the other day, and I actually saw this on the news where an IT person actually almost got taken by one. And I get these a lot. I get a letter in my email from, I think it's the Geek Squad at Best Buy, that it says they can renew, I guess, It's like my one-year agreement or something, and it's $400. So I guess, to me, I wouldn't spend $400 lately, But I think there's some people that maybe they don't realize, "I never actually signed up for anything that was $400." And so they click the link in the email, which then takes them to the scammer, not actually to Best Buy. And I'm seeing that a lot more. I'm getting texts from Amazon, and none of them are legitimate. So if I click that link, they're suddenly going to get into my account as I log in and do things. Have you been seeing any of those as well?
I have. I've seen it. Personally, I've gotten them from Apple, a fake Apple. But I've been getting a lot of texts for political donations, and obviously, I don't click on them. I think that's the point we really want to drive home with this podcast is that don't ever click the link. Don't ever follow the link because, 99 9% of the time, it's not legit. And your financial institution is never going to ask you for your information, your social, and things like that. So you just want to be aware that they're not going to ask for that. We have that. We don't need to ask for it.
Right. So I think what I always do is if I see something from Amazon or I get them from Cox because that's who I have my internet with, I then go to my account on my own. I don't go through that link. I go to my account. I know you and I were talking about this one day that I got a text. I have an account here and also at another financial institution, and I got a text one day asking me how do I spend this money? And I got it in the middle of the night, so I was barely awake, but I ignored it for the moment until I kind of woke up and felt like I could focus on it. And then, I contacted them directly, and it was legitimate. But I mean, I was even nervous about that.
And it's one of the financial institutions I use, so you would think I would be able to recognize that. But I was just so unsure if it was really dim that I said, well, let me err on the side of caution.
There are a lot of phishing emails and spoofing phone numbers and things, so it looks like it's a legit person calling you. On your caller ID, it could say Best Buy or whatever, and it's like you don't know. I mean, most people would be like, "Oh, it's Best Buy calling me," for whatever reason. Assume you have business at Best Buy.
Yeah. And I think it's just important for people to remember that, just like you said, don't click those links. Don't. And it's not that you want to lose your trust in everyone and everything that you get. But I think you just have to be aware and do the things you need to do to protect yourself so that people aren't getting your passwords and things like that. It's best to just go to the source and find out, "Hey, do I have a delayed order from Amazon or did I indeed have a check that you're questioning," or something like that? So not that long ago, I recall some people here coming in, and they had had issues with receiving a text that offered them a way to make money by wrapping their car. And so the person was offering to, I guess, pay them, or they would sort of advertise for them with their car, but it ended up being a scam. Do you remember what the deal was with that one?
I do. I remember it happening because I know it happened to a few of our members, and I want to say that they sent you like $3,000, a fake check that you deposit. And then, I don't know if you actually wrap your car at the advertisement or not. And then you are supposed to send them like $300. So so it's like you're going to get 3000 and cash it or deposit it into your account, and then all you have to do is just send me $300.
They would ask for gift cards or something like that. That way you had to go purchase it, and then you were out the money that way.
Yes. So there was another type of scam that I came across whenever I was researching for this podcast. And it may not be everyday people, but it could be. And it's fraudulent investments scams. And it's really big out of Israel. Their statistics say that they have five-- between five and 10,000 fraudulent businesses that run. And it's basically a fake call center that you're just cold calling these people from these-- again, these lead lists, and you are asking them to invest in these exciting opportunities. And they really do show the-- your money going up. So it gets you to keep putting more in. And then once they get a sense that you were being a little skittish, they pull the rug out from underneath you and they take your money and they disappear.
Oh, my gosh. So that really does sound legit when it comes across.
Yes. And actually, what's crazy is they go as far as-- what they do, is if you-- so say, I go on Google and I Google financial investment opportunities, they have fake websites or fake ads that will pop up. It'll be a whole website. And it's completely fake. And that's how they get you. I saw an example of it, and it looks-- I mean, I wouldn't know the difference. It looks like everyday people just investing their money. And another one, the-- if it's not actual money, but cryptocurrency is really big, too. People are losing millions and millions of dollars. I think I read a statistic on the FTC's website. It was something like, in-- I think last year in 2021, the FTC data shows that there was $547,000,000 reported lost. And that's over about two and a half million consumers. It's like five years, they said the total loss reported is upwards of $1.3 billion.
That is just insane.
It is insane.
So if people feel like they've been scammed, what do they do?
If it's with your account information, obviously, you talk to your financial institution so that they have an idea of what's going on. You can file a police report, and you can also file a complaint through the FTC's website. Now, if it's these fake companies, there's really no way of telling who-- where they are. Because a lot of times they'll say that they're located in one country when they're actually in another country. And it's not really just individuals. A lot of it is mafia or cartels that have these rings that do this. So it's not like it's one person a lot of times. I mean, some of the-- in the poor countries, it is just-- they're individual. But a lot of times they'll work under an umbrella criminal group.
So I guess that's pretty in-depth. That's pretty intense to think that it's an organization that big that's doing this. And I'm guessing that law enforcement is having a difficult time stopping them or finding them, probably even.
Because I don't know a whole lot about technology, but they have all those ways that you can ping off of all over the world. So it's very hard to track where these people are doing this from.
Yeah, it's easy to hide online when you use things like VPNs and things like that. I mean, it's very easy to hide yourself so that it's hard to find out where the source is.
If you receive a check in the mail and you don't know where it came from, you can always bring it to your financial institution. And we can look at it for you. And we can kind of let it-- kind of see if it's-- if we think it's legit. But 9 times out of 10, if you don't know where it came from and you don't know that you were-- you didn't know that you're going to be getting it, it's going to be fraudulent. And in these cases, what a lot of times we do for our members is if we think it might be suspicious or just in case, we can place it on an extended hold because that way, it's not available for you to use. And if it comes back, which in-- of these cases, they do, then the money is not spent. So you're not out any money. Some people might get upset if we put their checks on hold. But we do it for the members so that they don't get ripped off.
Yeah, and that's a very important thing. I've seen people do that where they don't understand, "Well, why are you having to put a hold on the check?" And it's to make sure that that check is good because when you send it back to the other-- the financial institution it's written on, if it's not a good check, then it's going to come back. And if you spent that money, you're just out of the money.
And we've definitely seen-- we've seen that happen here on more than one occasion. So I always tell people, "If you're ever hesitant, if you don't know, ask. Ask the question." If people don't, get yourself in a situation where you feel like you're on an island and there's no one to talk to. I think there are people you can ask about these things.
You have the other types of scams that we come across that maybe you're-- I want to say more common, but obviously like identity theft, the impostor scams, meaning you get a phone call saying, "This is Mary from ABC Credit Union. We need your account information so that we can go ahead and process this transaction." No, we're not going to do that [laughter]. That's fairly commonish. We have wire and money transfer fraud. It's kind of similar to-- really, any of these scams. If you're sending money and it's not for a legit reason or you think it's for a legit reason -even if you're buying something- you always just want to make sure that you know exactly who you are sending money to and that if you're buying something or you're getting some sort of service or good, that it is legit.
That's a very good point. I've seen people also, especially with older people or people that are easily confused, they'll go, "Okay. Well, I was trying to pay you and it didn't go through." And then, they'll say, "Look, just give me your account login information. And I'll just go take care of it." And now, you do that. And now, they have access to your account. You should never, ever, ever give out your account information or login information because then--
No, absolutely not. And that kind of-- I was going to go towards the elder financial exploitation side of things, which is-- it's more common than you think. And it could be strangers. It could be family members. It could be caregivers and it's incredibly sad. And these people depend on other people to help them a lot of times. And people are selfish. As far as it being a stranger, one of the ways that they do it is called-- they call it the grandparent scam. And they call you. They call some elderly person and they say, "Hey, this is so and-- this is Greg, your grandson. I'm in a lot of trouble. I'm in jail. I need money for whatever I just need you to wire it to me. And if they're old enough and they're not in their right sound mind, they don't know if they're talking to the real Greg or some stranger. So they want to help their kid who's in-- or grandkid, who's in trouble, and they send them this money. Well, if it happens once, if they got away with it once, maybe they'll forget this happened, and we'll try it again in a few months.
That actually happened to my family. My in-laws got a call about my nephew and that he was out of state. He had traveled out of state. He had run into trouble, and this was, I think, they said they were from a sheriff's office or something, and they needed a certain amount of money to clear it up. And of course, she kept asking questions that they wouldn't answer or they couldn't answer because she knew it wasn't true. And so she was savvy enough, like I said, to ask the questions and try to sort of trip him up and get him to tell her something. And eventually, I think, they hadn't succeeded, so they eventually hung up. But, I mean, she knew that he was at work. She knew he was in town, so. And we're not even sure how they got their number or why that even happened, but they knew a lot of information. They knew his name. They knew what towns. They knew a lot of things. They knew enough about us to make it sound legitimate.
It's very scary how much information you can find on people on the Internet. I mean, you can find a lot of information, and I'm talking just for free. There's websites that you can pay for, and you get even more information.
So even though someone knows a lot about you that-- they could have just paid for a background check somehow. That doesn't mean that they're a legitimate place or that it's a legitimate concern that you should worry about.
I just remembered one of the examples, and it was this woman, her husband had died, and it was a romance scam. And she sent them however many thousands of dollars. And the only thing she had left was her wedding ring, and she sold it to send them the money. "How do you even do that to someone?"
And they don't seem to really have any care or have any emotion about it.
No, because as far as they're concerned-- now, again, not the people at the top of these rings, but lower downs. They're just trying to survive, and so they'll do whatever they need to do, and it's just become-- they even said that they make more money doing scams than dealing drugs, which is crazy because drug dealing is a big money market.
That is really insane, especially when you hear and see the statistics about drugs and drug trafficking and whatnot. That is amazing that it's that bad. So what do we want to leave our listeners with as a tip?
If it's too good to be true, then it is.
Yeah, I guess just always be careful. And we don't want people, like I said, to lose their trusting nature, but--
Do your due diligence if you're purchasing from anyone online, especially if it's a-- I mean, it can be anything but a larger purchase that's a lot of money to most people. You want to make sure that it's legit. And if you ever have any questions, you can always call your local financial institution and they can help you they have lots of resources there. And if they can't help you, then they'll find someone that can help you.
Absolutely, because we don't want to see this happen to anyone, our members, or anyone.
They worked hard for their money, and they shouldn't lose it like that.
And how many times do I say this? If you have questions, if you need help, that's what we're here for. We're here to help you with anything that we can as far as keeping you financially healthy.
If anyone wants to check out the show that I watched to get this information, it is on the National Geographic Channel. And it's called Trafficked. And the episodes I watched were on romance scams and just scams in general. But there's lots of different variations on there.